Comments on: Testimony of just one of the thousands of peaceful Falun Gong (a form of Xi Gong- Yoga basically) practitioners who were tortured by the Chinese Government http://bluestein.com/2007/01/testimony-of-just-one-of-the-thousands-of-peaceful-falun-gong-a-form-of-xi-gong-yoga-basically-who-were-tortured-by-the-chinese-government/ My technical, political and sometimes personal blog. Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:40:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Steve Elbows http://bluestein.com/2007/01/testimony-of-just-one-of-the-thousands-of-peaceful-falun-gong-a-form-of-xi-gong-yoga-basically-who-were-tortured-by-the-chinese-government/comment-page-1/#comment-2655 Steve Elbows Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:57:45 +0000 http://bluestein.com/?p=214#comment-2655 Research has been interesting so far. Falun Gong goes much further than even I first suspected, they have some cult-like attributes, some things that seem like a new religion, and some stuff thats rather political. Their leader has said things in the past that suggest the only reason dirty homosexuals havent been killed by the gods, is because he is preventing it so that they can be 'saved'. They call non-practitionsers 'ordinary people' whilst they themselves walk towards godhood. Epoch times and some others are far from being independent of Falun Gong. Id like to talk to you more about this if you are at all interested, once Ive done quite a lot more research. On the human rights front, its pretty clear China is a serial offender. Its proving impossible to be sure that the organ-harvesting stuff is true, many other abuses seem easier to be reasonably sure of. There appears to be quite a lot of anti-Falun-gong propaganda that is coming from the chinese government. Some of it is laughable and some of it probably has a kernel of truth. Either way I support your unending quest to talk about human rights issues, if you are curious about what Falun Gong really is, their own literature, and the owrds of their leader, are the main thing Ive used to establish what they really are. Cheers Research has been interesting so far. Falun Gong goes much further than even I first suspected, they have some cult-like attributes, some things that seem like a new religion, and some stuff thats rather political. Their leader has said things in the past that suggest the only reason dirty homosexuals havent been killed by the gods, is because he is preventing it so that they can be ‘saved’. They call non-practitionsers ‘ordinary people’ whilst they themselves walk towards godhood. Epoch times and some others are far from being independent of Falun Gong. Id like to talk to you more about this if you are at all interested, once Ive done quite a lot more research.

On the human rights front, its pretty clear China is a serial offender. Its proving impossible to be sure that the organ-harvesting stuff is true, many other abuses seem easier to be reasonably sure of. There appears to be quite a lot of anti-Falun-gong propaganda that is coming from the chinese government. Some of it is laughable and some of it probably has a kernel of truth.

Either way I support your unending quest to talk about human rights issues, if you are curious about what Falun Gong really is, their own literature, and the owrds of their leader, are the main thing Ive used to establish what they really are.

Cheers

]]> By: Steve Elbows http://bluestein.com/2007/01/testimony-of-just-one-of-the-thousands-of-peaceful-falun-gong-a-form-of-xi-gong-yoga-basically-who-were-tortured-by-the-chinese-government/comment-page-1/#comment-2439 Steve Elbows Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:45:10 +0000 http://bluestein.com/?p=214#comment-2439 Fair points. I am a fan of your work but I seem to have missed quite a lot of your research on this, so I will take time to go back and look at your sources etc. The organ factory stuff is indeed highly disturbing, I just get highly annoyed by not being able to find much stuff on this issue which I can assume to be accurate - Im not sure Ive seen any convincing evidence yet, and I am a tad over-weary of anti-Chinese propaganda. I also get confused when I want to judge these other cultures, and end up discovering quite how different an attitude they have about so many things, that I dont know where to start. I stand behind you totally when it comes to torture etc, and that even if Fallun Gong has some cult-like attributes, this doesnt mean they should be persecuted, let alone have their organs harvested. I guess I just have a problem finding any good guysd, and that if we cant even convince our own countries to behave, why we are so quick to point finger at others. Im in the UK so I dont think we have any more moral highground than you, and indeed some years ago our government was heavily criticised because when the Chinese leaders came to visit, they got our police to park vans in front of human-rights protesters so that the Chinese wouldnt be offended by seeing them. I would be highly appreciative if you could post a link to the best evidence you've found so far for the organ stuff, I will let you know if I turn up anything interesting, it will take me a while to investigate what the agenda of sites etc on both sides are, so many sites that seem heavily biased one way or the other. As for whether Fallun Gong is a cult, I treat it as a seperate issue to the torture & organs, I guess I wills tart by reading their own literature, the words of their leader etc, as again the analysis of this stuff that Ive seen so far smacks of bias in all directions. Fair points. I am a fan of your work but I seem to have missed quite a lot of your research on this, so I will take time to go back and look at your sources etc.

The organ factory stuff is indeed highly disturbing, I just get highly annoyed by not being able to find much stuff on this issue which I can assume to be accurate – Im not sure Ive seen any convincing evidence yet, and I am a tad over-weary of anti-Chinese propaganda. I also get confused when I want to judge these other cultures, and end up discovering quite how different an attitude they have about so many things, that I dont know where to start.

I stand behind you totally when it comes to torture etc, and that even if Fallun Gong has some cult-like attributes, this doesnt mean they should be persecuted, let alone have their organs harvested. I guess I just have a problem finding any good guysd, and that if we cant even convince our own countries to behave, why we are so quick to point finger at others.

Im in the UK so I dont think we have any more moral highground than you, and indeed some years ago our government was heavily criticised because when the Chinese leaders came to visit, they got our police to park vans in front of human-rights protesters so that the Chinese wouldnt be offended by seeing them.

I would be highly appreciative if you could post a link to the best evidence you’ve found so far for the organ stuff, I will let you know if I turn up anything interesting, it will take me a while to investigate what the agenda of sites etc on both sides are, so many sites that seem heavily biased one way or the other.

As for whether Fallun Gong is a cult, I treat it as a seperate issue to the torture & organs, I guess I wills tart by reading their own literature, the words of their leader etc, as again the analysis of this stuff that Ive seen so far smacks of bias in all directions.

]]> By: Administrator http://bluestein.com/2007/01/testimony-of-just-one-of-the-thousands-of-peaceful-falun-gong-a-form-of-xi-gong-yoga-basically-who-were-tortured-by-the-chinese-government/comment-page-1/#comment-2435 Administrator Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:58:01 +0000 http://bluestein.com/?p=214#comment-2435 I have been posting article upon article of evidence that China is selling organs of falun gong prisoners. True- America as no high moral groudn when it comes to torture, and yes, you should boycott us, though I don't know where you are from and therefore I don't know your high moral ground,. But, we do have high moral ground when it comes to not using human beings as organ factories. So, do you have to have perfect morals before you are able to criticize an atrocity such as this? If you've read me or heard my podcasts you will know that I have always been firmly against war, torture, and the death penalty. As for falun gong being a cult, prove it. Site some sources. For months, I have been researching and siting my sources. Of course, even if you were to prove them to be a cult, I would still find it hard to justify murdering them for their organs unjustified. I have been posting article upon article of evidence that China is selling organs of falun gong prisoners. True- America as no high moral groudn when it comes to torture, and yes, you should boycott us, though I don’t know where you are from and therefore I don’t know your high moral ground,.

But, we do have high moral ground when it comes to not using human beings as organ factories.

So, do you have to have perfect morals before you are able to criticize an atrocity such as this? If you’ve read me or heard my podcasts you will know that I have always been firmly against war, torture, and the death penalty.

As for falun gong being a cult, prove it. Site some sources. For months, I have been researching and siting my sources. Of course, even if you were to prove them to be a cult, I would still find it hard to justify murdering them for their organs unjustified.

]]> By: Steve Elbows http://bluestein.com/2007/01/testimony-of-just-one-of-the-thousands-of-peaceful-falun-gong-a-form-of-xi-gong-yoga-basically-who-were-tortured-by-the-chinese-government/comment-page-1/#comment-2434 Steve Elbows Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:31:48 +0000 http://bluestein.com/?p=214#comment-2434 Id also love to know how you can be so sure Falun gong is not a cult, or cult-like. They have a leader, and a homophobic one at that if accounts are to be believed. I guess thats my problem really, who to believe, how do I know if what Ive read about Falun Gong is propaganda, or what you've read is Propaganda, if China are actually selling organs or whether this is yet more propaganda? Or maybe all of the above have some truth in them. Id also love to know how you can be so sure Falun gong is not a cult, or cult-like. They have a leader, and a homophobic one at that if accounts are to be believed. I guess thats my problem really, who to believe, how do I know if what Ive read about Falun Gong is propaganda, or what you’ve read is Propaganda, if China are actually selling organs or whether this is yet more propaganda? Or maybe all of the above have some truth in them.

]]> By: Steve Elbows http://bluestein.com/2007/01/testimony-of-just-one-of-the-thousands-of-peaceful-falun-gong-a-form-of-xi-gong-yoga-basically-who-were-tortured-by-the-chinese-government/comment-page-1/#comment-2433 Steve Elbows Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:02:02 +0000 http://bluestein.com/?p=214#comment-2433 Unfortunately America hardly has any moral high ground on which to stand and preach. Your country are also torturers who use the death penalty, should we boycott you as well? Unfortunately America hardly has any moral high ground on which to stand and preach. Your country are also torturers who use the death penalty, should we boycott you as well?

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